We will soon be updating the Track & Field Results Uploader. Some of the new features present on the XC Uploader will be applied to the TF Uploader. So, that we can make these changes and any others, all at the same time, we are looking for suggestions and input from you.
If you have an idea or additional feature that you would like to see added to the meet results upload system, let us know!
XC Upload features being applied to TF Uploader:
The Publish tab has been a common one for coaches to be confused on what to click. Any ideas or additional options that you would like to see there?
What about a link that sends an email to all registered coaches, saying that the results have been posted?
As always we appreciate and look forward to your input.
Man is that awesome timing -- I just took a screenshot to suggest an improvement.
As you can see I have been uploading quite a number of regional results tonight. What I am finding is that I am wasting a lot of time on athlete matching when there are no possible matches. So schools with NO POSSIBLE matches should not be red, green (I would have said yellow but that is already taken), or black. Grey is the color of hopelessness ... purple/pink like the girls outline color would work just fine.
Dan Bowdoin:Teams tab will have alternating background colors for each line.
Dan, this is a huge improvement and whoever suggested it should probably get a free t-shirt or something ;-) but I must tell you that on big meets I still use the dotted underline IN ADDITION to the alternating row colors. Especially if I have lots of yellow names, I just don't have the contrast I need.
Dan Bowdoin:The Publish tab has been a common one for coaches to be confused on what to click. Any ideas or additional options that you would like to see there?
Seriously, when presented with 3-6 options and no instructions people are confused? This does need improvement.
What about an "all" link that does the whole thing?
What really is the thing to do? I start at the bottom and click them one at a time going up. Is that a good thing to do? It makes sense to me even thought it is in exactly the opposite order of presentation, but it seems that adding athletes then teams then results makes sense ... or maybe it should be teams, then individuals, then results ... and I suspect in the end it makes no difference ... but I think a lot of people stop right there and that's that.
On the cross side I'd also like to see the parsed file show what is happening to it. I wind up putting bigger meets in excel, whereas if I could see a meaningful display of the parsed file, it would solve a lot of problems before I went on ... perhaps a column or color for every "field" so I could scan for a clean parse. Often I find the mistake much later and have to back up, delete, re-upload, rematch schools I already matched once, ditto for teams, etc.
Dan Bowdoin:What about a link that sends an email to all registered coaches, saying that the results have been posted?
Of course you mean all registered coaches who's team was in the meet. This should be a site supporter feature -- if you are a supporter you get notice. If you aren't you get notice that site supporters just found out that a set of their results were posted :-) and encourage them to join. I know you don't want to be pushy on it, but we do want you guys to succeed and continue to improve. That takes some financial commitment.
Seriously there has to be a priveledge to encourage folks to come on board.
I love you guys! Keep up the good work.
This might be off topic ... or not.
I REALLY REALLY REALLY wish that after someone uploads results it would say on the main page ... RESULTS FOR THIS MEET HAVE BEEN UPLOADED AND ARE PENDING IN THE MODERATION QUE.
That way people know that they are coming.
This should also be a no match meet -- when there are no gender matched athletes:
While we continue this converstaion I thought you might want to see what I mean by the above ... I'm wasting a lot of time checking to see if there are any athlete matches when there are none.
Using DJ's Jing Thing (http://jingproject.com)
http://www.screencast.com/users/Bestfoot/folders/Jing/media/4d7e6ba5-52c7-4e9b-87e4-0ae01ddbf6c0
Here is a video that shows the following:
1. the power of notetab ... I take a list like this:
<blockquote>
1. Anthony Wile, Birmingham Brother Rice, 15:54.12. Ben Miller, Warren deLaSalle, 15:60.03. Neal Duggan, Troy-Athens, 16:08.54. Chris Tassen, Troy-Athens, 16:12.25. Adam Haag, Warren deLaSalle, 16:15.26. Phil Fattore, Detroit U-D Jesuit, 16:26.77. Jeff Kuhl, Clarkston, 16:29.3</blockquote>
DivId Gender Place FirstName LastName School Time1 M 1 Anthony Wile Birmingham Brother Rice 15:54.11 M 2 Ben Miller Warren deLaSalle 15:60.01 M 3 Neal Duggan Troy-Athens 16:08.51 M 4 Chris Tassen Troy-Athens 16:12.21 M 5 Adam Haag Warren deLaSalle 16:15.21 M 6 Phil Fattore Detroit U-D Jesuit 16:26.71 M 7 Jeff Kuhl Clarkston 16:29.3</blockquote>
Ready for upload.
I then show how I upload --
I paste it vs a file,
I click next and match schools -- this is an especially bad set of matches so that takes a while to get right obviously
I click next and match athletes -- here is my point -- I would have to click on only like two of those ... the rest don't have matches, I just wasted moments of my life that I didn't have to
I click on next
I always go bottom to top
Anyway, maybe seeing how people use the uploader will help you see how to improve it. I could cut that upload nearly in half (or at least a third) if I only had to check matchable athlete match schools.
Don Passenger: What I am finding is that I am wasting a lot of time on athlete matching when there are no possible matches. So schools with NO POSSIBLE matches should not be red, green (I would have said yellow but that is already taken), or black. Grey is the color of hopelessness ... purple/pink like the girls outline color would work just fine.
What I am finding is that I am wasting a lot of time on athlete matching when there are no possible matches. So schools with NO POSSIBLE matches should not be red, green (I would have said yellow but that is already taken), or black. Grey is the color of hopelessness ... purple/pink like the girls outline color would work just fine.
I like this suggestion a lot (David & Josh). Thanks Don! I agree, something that marks or lets me know that I don't need to bother with a certain team would save me many hours in reviewing uploads as well. So, it would benefit both coaches and Athletic.net staff! I have talked about it in the past, but will try and make sure something like this is included if possible.
David & Josh: Even if we do not go with another color (like to keep it as simple as possible for coaches who only use the Uploader a few times each year), some minor identification would be great.
One idea could be to have an asterisk following the athlete match count. Not opposed to a different color, though.
Hey Dan,
What about changing the + to a - before the item?
Or putting a color background on the numbers (similiar to the pink/blue background on athlete confirmation screen)?
Just a couple of additional thoughts.
Don
Don Passenger: Indeed. The more I am thinking of it the more I think that possible match teams should be a +, fully matched teams should be an asterisk, and no matches available teams (as above) should be a minus sign. Wonder if that is easy to pull off. Then you next big advance will be to make it so that you cannot click publish until you click through the + matches.
Indeed. The more I am thinking of it the more I think that possible match teams should be a +, fully matched teams should be an asterisk, and no matches available teams (as above) should be a minus sign. Wonder if that is easy to pull off. Then you next big advance will be to make it so that you cannot click publish until you click through the + matches.
And since the fully matched teams have no more possible possible matches, they could also be assigned the minus sign. Instead of the asterisk, the green color already signifies a complete match...so sticking them in the minus sign category gives us only two categories to deal with. The plus sign for those needing clicked on, and minus sign for those that do not need clicked through.
Don Passenger:NEW ISSUE(link to another post): Something else I noticed in the track uploader (have not used it for a while) that I don't "like" is the fact that when moving from the event screen to the timing screen the next button placement on the prior three or for pages is in a consistent place, but then the next button is below on the timing screen and the FAT button is where the next button was. Make sense? I think the next placement should be consistent.
It's funny the little nuisances that I get used to and then simply ignore as being something to improve...my brain is completely trained to move the mouse right when I get to the timing screen. Yes, (David/Josh) this should be changed. Usually I will catch how a coach has set the timing (FAT or Hand), but sometimes I don't notice it quick enough before I accidently click FAT, thinking that I am hitting the 'Next' button.
Dan Bowdoin:And since the fully matched teams have no more possible possible matches, they could also be assigned the minus sign. Instead of the asterisk, the green color already signifies a complete match...so sticking them in the minus sign category gives us only two categories to deal with. The plus sign for those needing clicked on, and minus sign for those that do not need clicked through.
There you go with logic ... lol - minus signs = ignore, + signs = needs work. I guess that makes sense. I was working too hard on it. My thinking was - means I need to go check if the school is really right, but as you say the color covers it.
Dan Bowdoin:Usually I will catch how a coach has set the timing (FAT or Hand), but sometimes I don't notice it quick enough before I accidently click FAT, thinking that I am hitting the 'Next' button.
And then in Michigan you are completely messed up because unfortunately our state association last year required that we do hand times to the hundredth -- which is completely against NFHS rules and completely messes up everyone who must now guess is this meet hand timed or FAT. You'll guess FAT when in fact it is not, it is hand timed to the hundredth, unless you are in my league which has more FAT systems than any other league I know of around here.
This might just be a personal issue but if there are no matches I would rather be prompted to manually search using the menue that appears after an unmatched school than have one assigned. Don here we have three schools in Viginia named Robert E. Lee, a Washington-Lee, Lee and Lessburg and often I miss it when they get missed assigned. The rest looks awsome
Coach Hunt
Addison Hunt:This might just be a personal issue but if there are no matches I would rather be prompted to manually search using the menue that appears after an unmatched school than have one assigned.
Hi Coach Hunt,
We might be doing apples and oranges here -- and Dan and I might be on our own wave if you will, understanding each other, but not saying what we mean clearly for others to understand. Let me restate to see if we are on the same topic.
You are talking about school that have no athlete matches remaining, so there is no value in clicking on them in the ATHLETE match screen because there are not matches to be made.
There are two colors with no athlete matches, black and red ...
If there are NO MATCHES and the school is black on the ATHLETE match screen I now go back one screen and double check that school in the SCHOOL match screen. I have sufficient data into the system such that I rarely get a black school any longer ... or in other words most schools have at least one current athlete in the system to match. So no matter what we do with +/- before athlete matches, I am double checking all black schools to see if I got Washington and Lee when I wanted George Washington back in the school match screen. Every once in a while it really is a new school with no data still, but not often any more. Does that make sense? Are we on the same topic?
On the red schools in the ATHLETE match screen, it means that some athletes matched, and some did not. However many of them have no additonal athletes for a possible match ... and thus we could skip that school entirely in the ATHLETE match phase because all possible matches are already made and the unmatched athlete are new athletes. Because some athletes did match I do have reasonable confidence it is the right Lee High School :-)
Now on your topic, if I am following, I agree, if there is not a school match, I want to pick. There are three match possibilities. In cross country and track the auto match gives you possible choices at the top ... if one is correct you select that one. If none of those are right, then you click the more schools. It offers possible matches sometimes and other times goes staight to the browse. However I also scan the "auto-match" schools carefully as I often find one mis-matched. I seldom if ever find the drop down helpful for matching schools.
So tell me more about where you are in the match progression when you wish to have this choice if I missed your point -- which is entirely possible.
Hi all - I'm jumping into this conversation with no experience on the track and field uploader but working on my second thousand uploads on the cross country side. Since I began, the performance speed has increased dramatically.
I would agree that the first time user needs some hand-holding, but it is not that difficult once you get the hang of it on the xc side. Simple things like labels on numbers (what does 14/14 mean?), error flags on athletes whose gender is not correctly set (only M or F, not m or f), and explanatory tags on Publish page as others have said.
Large meet uploaders need to be vigilant on the team match - I have never had an improper athlete match, but I have had teams get mismatched, which could then result in "cross pollination" of rosters and make for future problems.
re: discussion about red-marked teams that turn out not to have matches. Is it possible that athletes not active in that season trigger the red-marking system yet are invisible to us? If all showed, it would be overwhelming, but when I can not find a currently active match, I wish I could use a pull-down menu to scan athletes from previous years (or in my case, future years since I currently working in the past).
One of my other wishes would to be able to typo-correct names (obvious errors) that can not be matched to pre-existing roster members. If not corrected, they will be uploaded and eventually added to rosters. The alternative is to start over, correct the name, re-upload, etc. Call me lazy, but I feel more like Monk.
Cheers
Bruce Carrick
Bruce Carrick:Hi all - I'm jumping into this conversation with no experience on the track and field uploader but working on my second thousand uploads on the cross country side.
Welcome to my convesation .... :-) It really is great how the site has improved even in my short time here.
Bruce Carrick:it is not that difficult once you get the hang of it on the xc side
I agree, but getting the data in the right format is the key ... showing a sample of the results even might help like they do with the roster upload.
Bruce Carrick:Simple things like labels on numbers (what does 14/14 mean?), error flags on athletes whose gender is not correctly set (only M or F, not m or f), and explanatory tags on Publish page as others have said.
Bruce Carrick:Large meet uploaders need to be vigilant on the team match - I have never had an improper athlete match, but I have had teams get mismatched, which could then result in "cross pollination" of rosters and make for future problems.
Fortunately we get better and better at these things. When I started I caused some issue I didn't understand for things like this. I am getting better until last week when I made two big mistakes actually. (College race in high school part of the site was one and I already forgot the other).
Bruce Carrick:discussion about red-marked teams that turn out not to have matches. Is it possible that athletes not active in that season trigger the red-marking system yet are invisible to us?
In the track uploader they actually do show you inactive athletes in the match screen -- they are yellow. I do not believe however that this is the issue. I think it means that they matched some athletes, but in the case we are talking about there are no additional athletes to match. I'm not sure on the cross side what is happening to inactive athletes, I think they are being matched if exact, but if close ... not sure ... I'll let Dan speak to that one.
Bruce Carrick:One of my other wishes would to be able to typo-correct names (obvious errors) that can not be matched to pre-existing roster members.
I have asked for something that allows you to pick between the two names when you match. It is often obvious that the "new" name is correct and the prior name is wrong (for example the switch of first/last). However any editor tool would have to be reserved for super users like yourself. I think it would be too much power in the hands folks just figuring out the system.
Bruce Carrick:re: discussion about red-marked teams that turn out not to have matches. Is it possible that athletes not active in that season trigger the red-marking system yet are invisible to us? If all showed, it would be overwhelming, but when I can not find a currently active match, I wish I could use a pull-down menu to scan athletes from previous years (or in my case, future years since I currently working in the past).
On the Athletes tab, if a team is marked as red, then there is at least one athlete visibly matched when you click on the team name, either active or inactive. If it is an inactive athlete, then there will be no 'X' on the athlete name...so that it cannot be unlinked. Reason being, if you unlink it, then you have to re-process the file for the system to search athletes from other sports or seasons, for that match again.
Or, are you referring to the Teams tab, where the (0/12) or the (2/12) is indicated as red? The colors on these are simply provided for levels of warning that you need to make sure that the team is matched correctly.
There is currently one issue on this. If Lee is matched correctly and full roster (7/7) and then there is a team called Robert E Lee with only three athletes, but matched incorrectly to team Lee, then the Robert E Lee will show as (7/3) and the parenthesis/numbers will still be green. This is because the 7 athletes from the correct Lee team remain in the count. This comes in to play where Addison is working and finding it hard to always spot the mismatched teams. So, mark that one up for something else for us to work out.
I encourage all three of you to go back to the team tab, after adding calendars, to scan all the teams listed in black (not an exact spelling match). This is an easy way to additionally spot any errors in team matching. Note: If you continually see a team spelled a certain way on all uploads (but different from what we have), then let us know, as once the better team spelling is corrected on Athletic.net, then it will always be the first team name that the Uploader matches to. After looking at athletes for auto-matching teams, the Uploader then looks at exact spelling of team names...so correcting these would help.
Addison Hunt:This might just be a personal issue but if there are no matches I would rather be prompted to manually search using the menu that appears after an unmatched school than have one assigned. Don here we have three schools in Viginia named Robert E. Lee, a Washington-Lee, Lee and Lessburg and often I miss it when they get missed assigned.
Interesting idea, as for big meets in areas where I know that duplicate names exist, I usually just go through and quickly unmatch the few teams that have no athlete matches. This way I can make sure there is no auto-match existing for the correct team. The system is much improved on matching to teams with the actual athletes (as far as team names that are duplicate across state borders), but it still will mismatch within a state where names are duplicate.
So, I like that idea. The one drawback is that when a coach is uploading a meet in an area still new to Athletic.net, then a number of the teams would not auto-match as they are waiting for manual matching because no athlete matches are found among many of the teams. But hopefully this wouldn't be a problem for long, as more and more results get entered across all the states, then athlete matches will start to occur for all teams.
Don Passenger: I seldom if ever find the drop down helpful for matching schools.
Don Passenger: Bruce Carrick:One of my other wishes would to be able to typo-correct names (obvious errors) that can not be matched to pre-existing roster members. I have asked for something that allows you to pick between the two names when you match. It is often obvious that the "new" name is correct and the prior name is wrong (for example the switch of first/last). However any editor tool would have to be reserved for super users like yourself. I think it would be too much power in the hands folks just figuring out the system.